15 Mean Fomhair 2011 sa Dáil:
• Deputy (sic) Éamon Ó Cuív:
Mar is eol don Aire Stáit, d’éirigh MFG as trádáil gan choinne an tseachtain seo caite. Bhí iniúchadh a chur mé féin ar bun á dhéanamh ar gnóthaí MFG. Bhí an tuarascáil sin réidh roimh an Aire nuair a tháinig sé isteach sa Roinn. Ba mhaith liom i dtosach báire ceist a chur ar an Aire Stáit faoin eolas a bhí ag an Aire maidir leis na fadhbanna a bhí in MFG agus, go deimhin, na céimeanna a bhíá ghlacadh ag an Roinn agus ag an Aire chun déileáil leis na fadhbanna sin, a bhí ar eolas acu. Is dóigh liom nach dtuigeann an Aire an caillteanas mór atá i gceist sa chinneadh a rinneadh an tseachtain seo caite, ó thaobh cailliúnt seirbhísí agus postanna de.
Sa tSeanaid!
20/9/2011:
An Cathaoirleach: I have also received notice from Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh of the following matter: (sic)
"Ar an gá don Aire Chomhsaol Pobal agus Rialtas Aitiúil soléiriú stádas na noibrithe i Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta, agus cad atá i ndán dóibh ó thaobh dlí de, agus cad atá an Roinn tar éis a dhéanamh, nó atá sé d’intinn don Roinn a dhéanamh, chun leasa agus cearta fostaíochta na noibrithe a chosaint.....I regard the matters raised by Senator Ó Clochartaigh as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and they will be taken at the conclusion of business. (sic)
Ag deireadh an lae:
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Tá beagán díomá orm nach bhfuil an tAire ó hÓgáin anseo leis an gceist seo a fhreagairt mar is ceist fíor-thábhachtachí i gcomhthéacs na Gaeltachta í agus sílim go bhfuil ceist le freagairt aige.
Táim ag caint faoi Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta, MFG. Go minic nuair a bhíonn jabanna á chailliúint ar fud na tíre, feiceann muid Airí agus Airí Stáit ag léimneach suas agus anuas agus ag déanamh scéal chailleach an uafáis os comhair na ceamaraí teilifíse agus raidío, ach is beag caint atá déanta faoi MFG. Tá 130 jabanna sna ceantair Gaeltachta ag imeacht mar gheall ar an teip atá ar an gcomhlacht seo agus tá ceisteanna tromchúiseacha le freagairt faoi sin. Tá sé curtha in iúl go rí-mhinic agam féin agus ag daoine eile go raibh deacrachtaí le Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta le roinnt blianta anuas. Go deimhin, d’ordaigh an t-iar Aire go ndéanfaí cúpla iniúchtaí ar an gcomhlacht ó thaobh chleachtais bainistíochta an bord stiúrtha agus iad a chomhlíonadh, na dualgais, cúrsaí airgeadais agus mar sin de.
Chonaic muid an tseachtain seo caite go bfhuil an comhlacht le scor, go bhfuil na jabanna le n-imeacht, go bhfuil cuid de na cláir le cur in áit éiginnte agus nach bhfuil sé soiléir cén todchaí a bheidh ag an chuid eile. Tá imní orainn ó thaobh na daoine atá fostaithe sna comhlachtaí, ach imní orainn freisin i dtaobh na daoine ar a bhfuil na cláir seo ag freastal. Le coicís anuas, táim ag iarraidh soiléirithe a fhail ó Phobal, ón Roinn agus ón gcomhlacht féin faoi céard atá ag tarlú. Tá faitíos orm go bhfuil daoine ag dul ar chúl sceiche le cuid den scéal seo.
I will revert to English to make this point. I believe there is significant buck passing happening in the Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta scenario. We have the Department funding programmes through Pobal to the independent company, Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta which operates State-funded programmes. When one asks MFG what is going on, one is told it is a question for Pobal. When one asks Pobal, it says it cannot say anything until it talks to the Department and when one talks to the Department, one is told it is an issue for the independent company, Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta. This is completely unacceptable. There are 130 jobs in the balance but this has not made the media headlines it should have and when I have asked for answers, they have not been forthcoming.
We have been raising serious governance issues about this company for quite a long time. As far back as three years ago, the directors of the company were written to by certain parties warning them of their responsibilities as directors with regard to the governance of the programmes they administer. These are all State sponsored programmes. Three of these programmes were audited approximately a year and a half ago by Pobal, but the report has not been published despite our calls for its publication. I have seen a copy of the report and it raises massive issues regarding the governance of the company. Why did the Department and the Minister not step in sooner? Why has Pobal not acted and why was the board of directors of Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta not held to task before we ended up in a scenario where the company is to close down - I believe there is talk of it being liquidated - and 130 jobs are to go? It is an incredibly serious issue and the people of the Gaeltacht are dismayed and angry that the reaction to the news has been so slow and muted.
Sin í mo cheist agus sin an fáth gur chuir mé an cheist. Cuirfidh mé fáilte roimh an freagra ón Aire Stáit.
Deputy Willie Penrose: The Minister is away on Government business and cannot be here.
Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta Teoranta, MFG, is an independent company with its own board of management and memorandum and articles of association which has responsibility under company law for the proper stewardship of the company. My Department has no role in the internal operations of local development or partnership companies and, therefore, does not have a role in staff matters, which are for the board of the company as the employer, to manage.
Pobal, which manages programmes on behalf of the Department, commenced an audit of MFG in January 2010. The audit findings and associated recommendations were notified to MFG in June 2010. An independent executive, Mazars, was appointed by Pobal to MFG on 30 June 2011 to examine the outstanding audit issues and to identify suitable mechanisms for their resolution. The executive presented its interim findings to Pobal in mid-August 2011 and presented its recommendations and progress to the board of MFG on 7 September 2011. The final status on the recommendations was scheduled to be presented by the independent executive to Pobal by 30 September 2011.
MFG has confirmed that its board, on examination of the company’s financial situation, took the decision to cease trading as of 4 p.m. on 7 September 2011 on the basis of insolvency. The board has also confirmed that all staff contracts have been terminated since the board meeting. The Department and Pobal met with MFG and the independent executive, Mazars, on 9 September 2011 to establish the facts with regard to the specific decisions taken by the company and on its progress on implementing these decisions. The company was strongly encouraged to avail of financial advice alongside the legal advice, which it was stressed was imperative, and it was encouraged to access the same immediately. It also committed to immediately effect all other necessary work to meet its statutory obligations with regard to staff. It was agreed at that meeting that MFG would take full legal advice on the necessary steps in this process and ensure it fulfils all statutory duties in that respect. The Department and Pobal are awaiting a written update on the implementation of this work. Pobal will continue to offer any appropriate support to aid this work. In parallel, my Department and Pobal are examining mechanisms to support the continuation of services previously supplied by MFG within the Gaeltacht areas. However, it should be noted that MFG is a private limited company and it is beyond the remit of my Department to direct the business of such a company in any way. It is the responsibility of the company’s board of directors to fulfil all its obligations under company and employment law. As the Senator will know, the issue of employee rights is the responsibility of the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation while responsibility for welfare rights rests with the Department of Social Protection.
Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: I understand the Minister of State is saying that he has no right to interfere with an independent company, but the programmes are State programmes that are directed by the Department. Guidelines are laid down for the proper implementation of the Leader programme, the LCD programme, the CSP programme, etc. Does the Minister of State agree that this gives him a right and that the Department should have stepped in sooner? If it had a report in June 2010 that showed up such deficiencies in the company, why did he not act sooner so that, instead of the jobs going, the company could perhaps have been salvaged and the jobs saved?
Deputy Willie Penrose: This is an issue I will follow up in the context of the particular matter the Senator has raised.
Tabhair faoi dearadh nár labhair an tAire Stáit abairt amháin i nGaeilge.
Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach, in aon socrú nua a dhéanfar, go gcuirfear na seirbhísí ar fáil trí Ghaeilge. Bunaíodh Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta chun déanamh cinnte go mbeidh seirbhísí ar fáil do Ghaeilgeoirí na Gaeltachta ina dteanga fhéin. Ní bheadh sé sásúil dom, nó do phobal na Gaeltachta, dá smaoineófaí ar na seirbhísí sin a chur ar fáil in aon teanga eile. Ba mhaith liom a dheimhniú go bhfuil sé i gceist ag an Aire casadh le bórd iomlán MFG. Cén uair atá sé i gceist aige casadh leo? Cad iad na socruithe atá i gceist a dhéanamh chun a chinntiú go mbeidh na cláracha Leader agus LCDP, agus na cláracha eile a bhíá reachtáil ag MFG, ar fáil do phobal na Gaeltachta amach anseo?
• Deputy (sic) Fergus O’Dowd:
Ba mhaith liom freagra a thabhairt don Teachta. Tá sé an-thábhachtach go réiteofaí an cheist práinneach seo ar son muintir na Gaeltachta, go háirithe. Tá an Aire agus an Roinn ag déanamh a ndícheall lá agus oíche chun an scéal seo a socrú, i dtreo is go gheobhaidh gach chuid de gach Gaeltacht sa tír an buntáiste atá ag teastáil ón airgead seo. Is é sin an bun-aidhm atá againn ar an taobh seo den Dáil. Tá súil agam go bhfuil an Teachta Ó Cuív ag cabhrú linn sa mhéid sin.
Mar is eol don Teachta, is comhlacht é Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta atá ag obair sna Gaeltachtaí i gCorcaigh, Ciarraí, Dhún na nGall, Gaillimh, Maigh Eo, an Mhí agus Port Láirge. This company operates a number of programmes on behalf of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, agus Ranna eile. Tá an comhlacht seo ag obair sa Roinn ina bhfuil mé i mo Aire Stáit. The programmes that are being delivered from my Department are rural walkways, rural development programmes and the local and community development programme. Is comhlacht neamhspleách lena mbord fhéin é MFG. Tá dualgaisí aige ó thaobh company law de. It - bord an chomhlacht - has responsibilities under company law with regard to the proper stewardship of that company.
Níl aon baint ag an Roinn leis na rudaí inmheánacha atá ar siúl i measc na gcomhlachtaí seo, ach go háirithe. Dá bhrí sin, níl aon ról ag an Roinn in relation to rudaí inmheánacha, go mórmhór na daoine atá ag obair ionta agus na rudaí a bhaineann leo. Tá an dualgas iomlán ar an mbord na rudaí sin a réiteach agus a chur chun cinn, más féidir. Mar is eol duit, a Theachta, Pobal, which manages the Local and Community Development Programme on behalf of the Department, commenced an audit of MFG in January 2010. The audit findings and associated recommendations were notified don comhlacht sin in June 2010.
An independent executive, Mazars, was appointed by Pobal to MFG on 30 June 2011 to examine the outstanding audit issues and identify suitable mechanisms for their resolution. The executive presented their interim findings to Pobal in mid-August 2011 and presented their recommendations and progress to the board of MFG on 7 September 2011. The final status on the recommendations was scheduled to be presented by the independent executive to Pobal by 30 September 2011.
LCDP funding was temporarily extended to September 2011 to facilitate the completion of the final report. MFG has confirmed that its board, on examination of the company’s financial situation, took the decision to cease trading as of 4 p.m. on 7 September 2011 on the basis of insolvency. The board has also confirmed that all staff contracts have been terminated since the board meeting.
On 9 September, a meeting was held with representatives from the Department, Pobal, Mazars and MFG. This meeting was used to gain clarifications on the specific decisions taken by the company and on its progress on implementing these decisions. The company was strongly encouraged to avail of financial advice, alongside the legal advice which, it was stressed, is imperative immediately. It also committed to effect all other necessary work to meet its statutory obligations.
It was agreed that MFG would take full legal advice on the necessary steps and that the company would ensure it is fulfilling all statutory duties relevant to its situation. The Department and Pobal are awaiting a written update on this work.
Deputy (sic) Éamon Ó Cuív:
Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Aire ach, in ndáiríre, níor fhreagair sé na buncheisteanna. An chéad cheist, muna n-éiríonn le MFG ord a chur a a chuid gnóithe céard iad na socruithe eile atá i gceist a dhéanamh leis na seirbhísi a chur ar fáil don phobal, is é sin, seirbhísí chomhlucht Leader agus LCDP, an local community and development programme? Ar ndóigh tá an comhlucht neamhspleách. Ach muna bhfeidhmíonn sé de réir critéir na Roinne níl sé neamhspleách, mar tá an Roinn ag tabhairt a gcuid airgid. Mar sin, muna bhfuil sé ag feidhmiú cad iad na malairt socruithe atá i gceist a dhéanamh le déanamh cinnte go mbeidh na seirbhísí seo ar fáil do phobal na Gaeltachta? Bhí dóthain ama agus dóthain fógra go raibh an fhadhb seo ann.
An dara rud, an bhféadfadh an t-Aire a dheimhniú dom go raibh an dliteanas ar fad a tharraing an trioblóid seo ag dul don Stáit? I gcás amháin, tá ordú Ard Chúirte go gcaithfear duine áirithe a íoc agus ní raibh aon rogha ag an Stáit ach aisíoch a dhéanamh ag MFG i dtaobh an duine sin. De bhreis ar sin, de réir mar a thuigim is dliteanas de thart ar €100,000 é, de réir tuairiscí. An bhféadfadh an t-Aire a dheimhniú gurb shin an dliteanas atá i gceist? Cuireann sé iontas orm nach rabhthas in ann teacht ar shocrú leis an gcomhlucht maidir leis an €100,000 sin agus déanamh cinnte go leanfadh an comhlucht ag déanamh na hoibre a raibh sé ceapaithe a dhéanamh ar son phobal na Gaeltachta.
Níor thug an t-Aire aon fhreagra céard atá i gceist a dhéanamh. Ta pobal na Gaeltachta gan na seirbhísí seo. Cén uair ar féidir linn a bheith ag súil go mbeidh na seirbhísí seo ar fáil do ghnáth mhuintir na Gaeltachta atá ag braith ar na seirbhísí seo agus atá ag fanacht ar chúnamh airgid nach bhfuil ar fáil anois.
Deputy (sic) Fergus O’Dowd:
Tá sé an-tábhachtach go mbéadh na seirbhísí sin ar fáil ins na gaeltachtaí chomh luath agus is féidir iad a bheith ann. Tá sé an-thábhachtach go mbéadh an Roinn ag déanamh a dhícheall chun na seirbhísí a chur ar fáil, más rud é nach bhfuil an comhlucht in ann é sin a dhéanamh.
Tá an Roinn ag déanamh a dhícheall. It is currently working on both long-term and short-term solutions to ensure the continued delivery of the programme for rural and Gaeltacht areas. At this stage, is féidir liom geall a thabhairt gur féidir aon project promoter who already has contractual commitments under RDP to have his or her contract honoured. Tá sé sin thar a bheith soiléir anois.
I assure the Deputy that the intention is to find an efficient and effective solution that can be applied at the earliest opportunity. My Department would be happy to brief Deputies from Gaeltacht areas to ensure they are fully informed at every stage of this process, which is critical for the Gaeltacht.
The funding that MFG has been given to spend in 2011 amounts to €1.8 million. It is also contracted to deliver other services between 2007 and 2013. The financial allocation to MFG over the programme period to the end of 2015 will be more than €17 million. Tá sé an-thábhachtach ar fad go mbéadh an t-airgead caite san áit cheart. Déanfaidh mé sár-dhícheall go dtarlóidh sé sin.
Deputy (sic) Éamon Ó Cuív: An féidir leis an Aire a dheimhniú gur €100,000 atá i gceist, give or take?
15 Meán Fomhair 2011 sa tSeanaid.
Senator (sic) Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:
Ba mhaith liom mo dhíomá a léiriú mar gur gealladh dúinn, nuair a bhíomar ag scor, go mbéadh díospóireacht ar na healaíona ar siúl inniu ach níor tharla sin. Deirtear liom go mbeidh sé ag tarlú an tseachtain seo chugainn. Ba mhaith liom soiléiriú a fháil ar sin, mar tá cuid mhaith grúpaí ealaíne atá ag súil leis an díospóireacht sin.
Ar ábhar i bhfad níos tromchúisigh, fad is atá muid ag geadsaíocht anseo tá 130 post idir dhá cheann na meá ins na ceantair Gaeltachta i Meitheal Forbartha Gaeltachta. Ba mhaith liom leasú a iarraidh ar Riar na hOibre inniu le go dtiocfadh an t-Aire, an Teachta Phil Hogan, isteach sa Teach le míniú dúinn céard tá ag tarlú.
I call for an amendment to the Order of Business. As we sit here, 130 jobs in Gaeltacht areas are on the brink of disappearing. Last week, Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta, a company fully funded by the State, had a board meeting at which the members discussed advice by management consultancy Mazars that the company should close because it was trading in a way it should not. The board took a decision that day to cease trading immediately. The manager rang a number of employees to ask them to tell their colleagues they no longer had jobs. In the interim, there were meetings between officials from Pobal, under the aegis of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, and members of the board of directors and ex-management of this company. Up to half an hour ago, none of the employees of this company had been given any notification of where they stood. They cannot collect their dole or use their mortgage protection plans, and they really do not know what to do.
Some of the people concerned are employed under FÁS schemes, and they were told yesterday to go back into work today under these FÁS schemes, although when we sought clarification from FÁS we were told there was no contract for these people to be at work and that they would not be covered by insurance if they did go to work. It is a serious matter. All the funding for this company comes from the State. It is under the aegis of the Minister. These jobs could be saved and the company could be put right. The reason the company is in trouble is bad management, as highlighted by a number of audit reports done by Pobal. We have asked for these reports to be published but they have not been. However, I have seen a copy of one report, and it is a damning indictment of the company.
An Cathaoirleach:
Can the Senator reiterate his proposed amendment to the Order of Business?
Senator (sic) Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:
I propose that we call on the Minister, Deputy Hogan, to come to the House to clarify what his Department intends to do to save the 130 jobs at MFG. This needs to be done immediately because the people concerned are in limbo. It is simply not acceptable. The company has been given ample time to act but it has not done so. This is a matter of great urgency.
-)•(-
An Cathaoirleach:
Senator Ó Clochartaigh has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: “That statements on the imminent closure of the Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta company in County Galway be taken today.” Is the amendment being pressed?
Senator (sic) Trevor Ó Clochartaigh:
Yes.
Amendment put (sic):
The Seanad divided (sic):
Tá, 17; Níl, 26.
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